For my Gender and the Body class.
This is my artistic reaction to the Starfire controversy. I was going to draw her teammates in her outfit- or them in her pose- but instead I drew her as a man. I call him. Manfire. To illustrate how stupid these poses are and how un-empowering they are. This goes with my paper titled:
The Issue that Melted the Internet: The Continued Objectification of Women in Comics
One of these days I will post it online. It is incredibly long but here is this.
I have re-appropriated the background from the original comic book.
AHAHAHA AHAHA HAHA HAHAAHAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA *dies*
so accurateTHIS
I’d like to see how you did this one.
I think I’ll start an extra blog, “Male objectification in comics.” It’ll have all of the thousands of male superheros with impeccable bodies that men can only strive to no avail to achieve.
I’ve never understood why women seem to think they’re the only victims. It must be years of socially conditioning them to think that men cannot be victimized.
Weird. Some sort of double standard shit. I wouldn’t care if it weren’t their endless attempts to undermine the already weakened comic book industry that were so damaging of its followers. Who the hell even introduced them to comics anyway? I mean obviously that whole standard of “Women don’t read comics” must have held true for quite a few decades if they’re only NOW finding out that there was some semblance of sexist ideology in them, and even then most of the images they upload to refer to it are from incredibly dated comics.
Sigh. Another one? Here’s a handy comic for you:
Men are not “objectified” in comics. They are idealized. This sounds the same, but this distinction is incredibly important to keep in mind. Unless you can honestly tell me that men in comic books are usually depicted like the OP’s “Manfire” up there, or are even presented in an overly sexualized context in society in general, then they are not being objectified.
Western comics have their roots in being a male power fantasy. Male bodies in them are idealized to reflect what men wanted to see in super heroes. Not what women wanted to see. And in line with comics being male power fantasies, women in comic books are depicted with not just an idealized body, but an overly sexualized, objectified appearance. Men in comics are drawn to convey strength and power and respect. They reflect male fantasies of being powerful, respected, and in command. Women in comics are drawn to convey sex and… more sex. They reflect male fantasies of submissiveness and overt sexuality, to the point that this is their defining characteristic. There’s an implicit rule in comics that women must be sexy in order to be appealing, and if you showed me any female superhero, odds are that sexiness is going to be one of her primary defining characteristics.
This is never the case with male superheroes.
Newsflash: male superheroes are not depicted as being attractive. If they were being objectified by women, then they would not be the hulking steroidal masses that they so often are. I don’t mean to make women out to be a monolith, but most of us just don’t find that shit sexy at all. And if they were actually being objectified, and reduced only to their sexual assets as Manfire is up above, then they would be forced to contort their spines in impossible ways, their junk would be far more emphasized (and it never is in comics, to the point that it appears to be completely nonexistent), and logical and proper anatomy would be completely forgone in preference of delivering “boots and butt” (or maybe “abs and ass” in this case) poses, so that we can see a man’s assets all at once, all the time, every time. Panels would focus not on their faces, but only on their bodies. They would wear outfits that would conceal almost nothing at all and would wrap around their bodies like cellophane to emphasize every aspect of their bodies as if they were naked, even if this is physically impossible with clothing.
And in your example, guess what? The focus isn’t on the male character. Arguably, it’s on Starfire and her slinky dress. The male character’s nudity is presented as comedy, not sexually. The panel is not being taken up by his abs, chest, ass, or junk. The camera is not directed to give us a between-the-legs shot, or at a flattering angle in general. This panel is designed to be silly in regard to the male character, not sexy.
It’s not that society has taught us that men cannot be “victimized.” It’s that they aren’t victimized. They are not sexualized to this degree, and when they are, it’s only in parodies such as the one the OP did of Starfire to show just how goddamn ridiculous it is to objectify anyone at all. Go outside today. Turn on the television. Tell me what you see. Is it men in a state of undress, contorting themselves painfully, touching themselves to convey submissiveness and an openness to being sexualized, that we so often see in commercials attempting to convey female beauty? No, I didn’t think so. When men are objectified, it looks ridiculous and laughable. It should be this way with women too, but society has made us far more comfortable with reducing women to just their bodies and nothing else than it has made us comfortable with doing the exact same thing to men. Some double standard right there.
And look, if you’re desperate to point the finger of blame at someone for the failing comics industry, then I suggest you take a good long look in the mirror. 95% of the people buying the DC New 52 are male—5% are female. You want to know why only 5% of these consumers are women? It’s because we’re being told, again and again, that we are not welcome in your goddamn boy’s club, where the only way a woman can be a superhero is if she contorts herself to display herself to men at all possible times, wears chainmail bikinis and thongs in lieu of proper comfortable clothing or practical armor, and is okay with her sexiness being her defining trait, and often only defining trait. What’s ailing the comics industry is that most of the world sees this sheer ridiculousness for what it is—a bunch of privileged middle-aged men depicting women in grossly objectifying ways for their own entertainment, in an elite club that nobody is allowed to change or intrude upon, especially not women, who’ve somehow gotten this crazy idea that maybe, just maybe, they deserve better treatment than this. If the comics industry got serious about drawing in new consumers and fans, then they’d actually make an effort to not actively offend half of the human population. Believe me, I want badly to enjoy comics as much as you do—but things like this make it almost impossible for me to do so. Then again, since you have issues with women enjoying something that men do anyway, I guess you’re getting exactly what you wanted.
Once more, behind the curve on this, I saw that webcomic when it hit the internet because- believe it or not- I prefer to research arguments from both angles to allow myself the ability to understand all sides. I’ve noted a common trend that feminists argue “Men aren’t objectified because I don’t find them attractive.” Who in the flying fuck gave you the right to decide what is and isn’t attractive? I’ll assume it’s the same person who instilled the thought into your mind that you could decide what was and was not appropriate creative expression?
Regardless of whether or not it is wrong or immoral to objectify women (or idealize men, which is apparently not immoral by your standards even though it greatly impacts the mental state of the impressionable male audience) the fact still stands- it’s a creative illustrious medium. So long as creative freedom is still legal, people will continue to idealize their creative expressions.
You cannot change anything about the way women are depicted, only the way they are perceived. Once you’ve begun trying to regulate how women are depicted you’ve crossed the line into fascism- you’ve begun to censor art and made certain forms of expression impossible, and once you do that it won’t stop until volatile expression is nearly impossible. That is why I can’t stand with the feminist movement on this, because they’re careening violently and blindly toward a state of fascism that goes against the very principles of freedom they once stood for, fighting social liberty.
As for laying the blame on me for sexualization of females in comics I’d love to make a difference but Maximum Impact doesn’t even have a talented writer yet (because I’ve been doing the writing and LORD I CANNOT WRITE WORTH SHIT) and it sure as hell won’t be going to print anytime soon, not while I’m busy doing colors for the lovely ladybug and I don’t even have photoshop on this computer lord it’s hard to get illustration work done like this.
Look, dude, I think you missed my point.
I didn’t say that men can’t be objectified if I don’t find them attractive. I certainly don’t find all the women that are objectified attractive, but I can see them as being objectified. Objectification is not about what I find attractive, it’s about presentation, posture, posing, mood, tone, and context more than anything else. That is what the OP’s Manfire is trying to convey. I don’t find him attractive, but I can’t deny that he’s being objectified. In fact, more than a few men didn’t find Starfire attractive in these comics, but they couldn’t deny that she was being objectified and sexualized beyond belief. My point with saying that “most/many women don’t find the men in comic books attractive” was to say that it wasn’t about what we wanted, it was about what the men writing these comics wanted to see.
I don’t doubt that the idealization of every superhero in comic books can be detrimental. When all we see is one body type that everyone “should” have, that no doubt has damage on both men and women. But that doesn’t erase the distinction between objectification and idealization. Women are definitively objectified, men are idealized but never objectified. That was my point there. Men are made to reach a fantastic standard that some men may aspire to—and I say that some do because it was, again, men that made these comics, and men that made these comics about their fantasies of power. Women are made to be less than people and fulfill only roles of male sexual desires. That is the difference.
My hope is never to censor art. The problem is that people don’t understand that this is a problem to begin with. Surely you and I can agree on the fact that racist stereotypes and depictions of people of color in any medium is something that should be criticized, called out on, and not celebrated. The same goes for sexism. I’m not trying to stymie your enjoyment of comics and art, but I am trying to help you understand why, sometimes, these comics and art are so damaging to our culture’s perception of women. Because, as you said, the perception of women is what matters. If the idealization of men is so damaging, can you just imagine what the objectification and sexualization of women is doing to impressionable young girls?
If you want to make a difference, I don’t think you even need to have a comic contract in hand. Simply understanding how these depictions of women make women feel goes a long way. The problem is you’re not listening to us—you’re taking our emotions, telling us they’re completely invalid, and making it all about your feelings and your emotions. That is silencing us, not understanding “both sides of the argument” or making a difference. You are silencing the other side of the argument. The problem is you’ve never experienced sexism, and you are trying to say that you have. And before you tell me that you have, let me ask you: when a group of women walks your way at night, what do you do? Do you take your keys in hand and cross the street in order to protect yourself? Do you never walk alone in the evening for fear of being attacked? Do you have random strangers walk up to you and ask you to smile if you’re not? Do you guard your drinks at a party zealously for fear of being slipped a date rape drug? Have you ever been silenced in a conversation, had your opinions steamrolled, or, when you tried to voice these opinions in a way that they’ll actually finally get attention, have you been told that you’re too “aggressive” or “bitchy”? Are you paid, on average, 75% of what your coworkers of the opposite sex are paid? Do you pay attention to how you dress each morning in the hope that what you wear doesn’t invite unwanted attention and sexual harassment, because it is not you that dictates what you should or shouldn’t wear, but your culture? And when you turn on the TV, or look at billboards, or read comic books, do you see images like this:
(Credit: gregokulove)
wherever you go? Men in comic books may be held to a standard, yes. But it is a standard that men themselves have created, because comics are undeniably a male-dominated industry. And when men are held to standards, they are not held to the standard of the photo above.
Perfectly put, rebel-mel. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean getting to say or do anything to anyone without ramifications—in the media or otherwise. It also doesn’t mean that only ONE group gets freedom of speech. People have a right to object if they’re being portrayed offensively, and the dehumanization that comes with objectification is offensive. Expecting ladies to roll over, smile, and accept any work guys put out because “they’re guys with freedom of speech” is ridiculous. Especially if ladies don’t get freedom of speech themselves.
Feminists just want to be treated like human beings acting of their own accord. This means not being positioned and viewed like blow up dolls by the artists, not being deprived of individual motivation and stories by the writers, and not being killed off or tortured as plot points to motivate other characters. We want to see that women have equal capacity for competence, complexity, and interest as men whether they’re heavy or thin, busty or flat, old or young or whatever. This is because the media does shape how people view themselves, and if women are being shown as only worth viewing as sex objects for men there’s a huge problem.
Ladies (and minorities) demanding to be treated and recognized as human beings of equal worth, respect, and interest is not fascism. Treating us like human beings of equal worth, respect, and interest doesn’t hurt men or destroy men’s self esteem. But objectification hurts women.
